Spoilers ► Eraqus should have...

[Willow A113]

If he's the father figure, is Aqua the mother figure? She's always seemed more like the leader of the three, not Terra.
And the other trios don't have a father figure, so why should they have one?

They're a trio, a team. They should all be equal parts of a whole. No one member should be placed higher than the others.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

If he's the father figure, is Aqua the mother figure? She's always seemed more like the leader of the three, not Terra.
And the other trios don't have a father figure, so why should they have one?

Yeah, Aqua's the mother figure and Ventus is the eternal adopted child.

 

[Sign]

But wasn't Terra actually susceptible to the darkness? If he really was ready to be a keyblade master, then it wouldn't have mattered if he lost to Aqua or the orbs of light attacked them. If you compare Aqua's situation in the Realm of Darkness and Terra's isolation in BbS, it's clear who should definitely be a keyblade master. Aqua only fell to darkness after 10 years of isolation and being attacked by a dark orb. Terra gave in to the darkness in like 5 minutes after losing.

Because being susceptible wasn't the issue. That is something that could always be improved with the right direction and guidance, something that Eraqus did not offer. As a result, Terra had been struggling to deal with it for a long time in that environment, being told there was something inherently wrong with him for that affinity but not knowing how to fix it. Xehanort knew about this, and knew that Eraqus's blind hatred for darkness (after all, it runs in his blood) would immediately cause him to think the worst the moment he saw even the slightest shadow, especially around his son.

If Terra had actually done something to harm himself or the others around him, then not making him a master would be justified. But all that happened was a small essence surfaced and he immediately dispelled it. That's nowhere near "falling to darkness," nor should it be grounds for failure, but it's all Eraqus needed.

You cannot and should not be comparing Aqua and Terra together. Aqua is radiant; her affinity for light is tremendous, completely engulfing what little darkness she has within. She did not experience any negativity under Eraqus's teachings or in the environment that he built. For Terra, it was suffocating.

Aqua's not-10 years in the RoD doesn't really prove anything so idk why you brought it up. Both she and Terra were affected by circumstances outside of their own control.

Just because Terra was like Eraqus' son doesn't mean Eraqus should declare him a keyblade master in his dying breath.

This isn't what happened, nor is it what I said happened. I brought up their relationship to explain why Eraqus telling Terra to take care of Aqua and Ven was more meaningful than if he had been named Master.

 

[Chie]

And the other trios don't have a father figure, so why should they have one?

Because the characters are people with their own lives, not merely vectors for a set of parallels???? Why is this a question.

 

[KingdomKurdistan]

Because the characters are people with their own lives, not merely vectors for a set of parallels???? Why is this a question.

Deep down, you know why.

 

[MATGSY]

"Terra, before I go I just want you to know..... you're still a disappointment."

"But dad..."

"Tell you what, you can be a pallbearer at my funeral. That way you can let me down one last time."

 

[KingdomKurdistan]

"Terra, before I just go I want you to know..... you're still a disappointment."

"But dad..."

"Tell you what, you can be a pallbearer at my funeral. That way you can let me down one more time."

Now that's my headcanon.

 

[Face My Fears]

Because being susceptible wasn't the issue. That is something that could always be improved with the right direction and guidance, something that Eraqus did not offer. As a result, Terra had been struggling to deal with it for a long time in that environment, being told there was something inherently wrong with him for that affinity but not knowing how to fix it. Xehanort knew about this, and knew that Eraqus's blind hatred for darkness (after all, it runs in his blood) would immediately cause him to think the worst the moment he saw even the slightest shadow, especially around his son.

If Terra had actually done something to harm himself or the others around him, then not making him a master would be justified. But all that happened was a small essence surfaced and he immediately dispelled it. That's nowhere near "falling to darkness," nor should it be grounds for failure, but it's all Eraqus needed.

You cannot and should not be comparing Aqua and Terra together. Aqua is radiant; her affinity for light is tremendous, completely engulfing what little darkness she has within. She did not experience any negativity under Eraqus's teachings or in the environment that he built. For Terra, it was suffocating.

Aqua's not-10 years in the RoD doesn't really prove anything so idk why you brought it up. Both she and Terra were affected by circumstances outside of their own control.



This isn't what happened, nor is it what I said happened. I brought up their relationship to explain why Eraqus telling Terra to take care of Aqua and Ven was more meaningful than if he had been named Master.

Isn't the whole point of becoming a keyblade master to prove that you are able to resist the darkness? Even though Terra resisted it in the Mark of Mastery, Xehanort's seduction to the dark side should not have been so easy. Also, if he was skilled enough to handle the situation, why would he need to access the darkness to defeat the orbs of light?

How do you know what's grounds for failure? It was Eraqus' test and Eraqus was vehemently against darkness. If Terra was truly ready to be a keyblade master, failing the test and not being named a "master" shouldn't matter to him.

I brought up Aqua's response to the darkness to prove what a true keyblade master reacts to darkness. She didn't succumb to the darkness at all even at her lowest point. Ansem's dark blast is what converted her. Aqua was in a much worse situation and fought off the darkness. Terra got scared of light orbs, then got mad that he failed, and ultimately unleashed Xehanort upon the worlds. Just because Terra was saved and helped at the end of it all doesn't mean he should be rewarded with a promotion to keyblade master. It would have been a slap in the face if Terra got to become a master, while Sora who did almost EVERYTHING got nothing.

Regardless if Terra was suffocating or not, part of being a keyblade master is powering through the circumstances. Terra wasn't able to cut it - end of story. That's like saying it was OK for Riku to open the door to darkness because he was suffocating on Destiny Islands.

 

[Chie]

Isn't the whole point of becoming a keyblade master to prove that you are able to resist the darkness?

I brought up Aqua's response to the darkness to prove what a true keyblade master reacts to darkness.

part of being a keyblade master is powering through the circumstances

You sure are making a lot of wild assumptions based on what the word "master" conjures in your head, huh? None of this reflects anything that's actually said in the games.

I am beginning to consider that the Foretellers are the closest parallel in the series to the kingdom hearts fandom. (Nomura, of course, is the Master of Masters, for better or worse.)

 

[Face My Fears]

You sure are making a lot of wild assumptions based on what the word "master" conjures in your head, huh? None of this reflects anything that's actually said in the games.

I am beginning to consider that the Foretellers are the closest parallel in the series to the kingdom hearts fandom.

Well what have the games actually said about keyblade masters?

I'm going off of what is shown by keyblade masters' actions in the games versus non-keyblade masters. Riku is wise, in control of his darkness, and calm in KH3. Aqua doesn't succumb to the darkness, even at her lowest point, and always fights for the light. Mickey doesn't show any sign of falling into the darkness. On the other side, Sora fell into the Organization's trap in KH3D and broke a law of nature (time travel) to fix his mistakes. Terra succumbed to the darkness because an orb of light made him fail his test. If Sora or Terra were worthy to be "masters", they would have reacted differently to those situations.

 

[Chie]

I'm going off of what is shown by keyblade masters' actions in the games versus non-keyblade masters.

Xehanort is a keyblade master.

I really hope this belief that a title conferred from authority is an objective indicator of being a better person does not extend outside of kingdom hearts and into your real life.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Isn't the whole point of becoming a keyblade master to prove that you are able to resist the darkness?

No. In fact, Eraqus was going to pass Terra even after his display of darkness until Xehanort made him doubt his judgment. Being a master isn't about resisting the darkness, but showing mastery over wielding the Keyblade. The Keyblade can be used for light or darkness or everything in-between.

And no, because let's also rememer that Riku's main source of power both the darkness and light. KH3D even makes it a point to show that he takes the darkness and purifies it into light.

Even as a wielder whose main source of power is darkness and light, Riku ended up being a master.

Even though Terra resisted it in the Mark of Mastery, Xehanort's seduction to the dark side should not have been so easy. Also, if he was skilled enough to handle the situation, why would he need to access the darkness to defeat the orbs of light?

Terra had no reason to not trust Xehanort's teachings. Imagine having a power that you ignore because you are taught it is wrong, and this this renown master who is your father-figure's oldest friend says its fine to use that power. Why would Terra have thought anything otherwise?

There is nothing wrong with using the darkness. The darkness is just a power that can be wielded by anybody for good or bad, but it is just due to the corrosive nature of darkness that it controls and corrupts people more easily than say the light.

The light is not without its issues. Eraqus admits that he was blinded by the light and his dogmatic views, turning him to a "dark" path in trying to kill his own apprentices/children. Pure light can still be just as bad as pure darkness.

How do you know what's grounds for failure? It was Eraqus' test and Eraqus was vehemently against darkness. If Terra was truly ready to be a keyblade master, failing the test and not being named a "master" shouldn't matter to him.

And again, Eraqus was going to pass Terra regardless of that. He only doubted Terra's ability to control his inner darkness when Xehanort implied it. Terra could have done the whole test using his inner darkness with perfect execution and would have still passed because the benchmark isn't alignment but skill. The variable here was Xehanort's manipulation, not Terra's lack of control.

I brought up Aqua's response to the darkness to prove what a true keyblade master reacts to darkness. She didn't succumb to the darkness at all even at her lowest point. Ansem's dark blast is what converted her. Aqua was in a much worse situation and fought off the darkness. Terra got scared of light orbs, then got mad that he failed, and ultimately unleashed Xehanort upon the worlds. Just because Terra was saved and helped at the end of it all doesn't mean he should be rewarded with a promotion to keyblade master. It would have been a slap in the face if Terra got to become a master, while Sora who did almost EVERYTHING got nothing.

Okay this is a whammy of a paragraph so let's go bit by bit:

Aqua's ability to resist and fight off the darkness is not a show of her skill as a master, but just a show of her determination to protect her friends/family. Aqua's resolve is what makes her a master, not her ability to stand strong against the darkness.

Ansem's darkness ball of darkness and despair was the catalyst, yes, but all it did was amplify her inner doubts and fears that we saw in 0.2. This inner darkness already lingered inside of her. Remember that the brightest light casts the darkest shadows. Aqua is no better than Terra because her resistance to the darkness up to that point.

Terra was just as thrown off as Aqua by those light orbs, my dude. He got mad at himself for his inner failings that were only brought to light BECAUSE of Xehanort.

Why are you blaming Terra for Xehanort's cruel plan succeeding? Xehanort did everything with the intention of those things happening. He knew he could manipulate Terra. He would have moved onto Ven or Aqua had Terra failed as a vessel as Vanitas implied.

Terra shouldn't be named a master, not because of what you said but because the title itself is absolutely pointless.

Sora doesn't want to be a master.

Regardless if Terra was suffocating or not, part of being a keyblade master is powering through the circumstances. Terra wasn't able to cut it - end of story. That's like saying it was OK for Riku to open the door to darkness because he was suffocating on Destiny Islands.

Terra's actions throughout BBS definitely reinforced that Terra probably wouldn't have been ready for the responsibility of being a master, sure, but his inability to control his darkness is not what kept him from being a master. The only thing that kept him from being a master was Xehanort. End of story.

 

[Face My Fears]

Xehanort is a keyblade master.

I really hope this belief that a title conferred from authority is an objective indicator of being a better person does not extend outside of kingdom hearts and into your real life.

I don't see why you have to attack my personal life over this. Of course it doesn't. The topic at hand is being a keyblade master and what that means in Kingdom Hearts. When there is a magical ceremony that is done to pronounce someone a keyblade master in real life, then say crap like that to me.

No. In fact, Eraqus was going to pass Terra even after his display of darkness until Xehanort made him doubt his judgment. Being a master isn't about resisting the darkness, but showing mastery over wielding the Keyblade. The Keyblade can be used for light or darkness or everything in-between.

And no, because let's also rememer that Riku's main source of power both the darkness and light. KH3D even makes it a point to show that he takes the darkness and purifies it into light.

Even as a wielder whose main source of power is darkness and light, Riku ended up being a master.



Terra had no reason to not trust Xehanort's teachings. Imagine having a power that you ignore because you are taught it is wrong, and this this renown master who is your father-figure's oldest friend says its fine to use that power. Why would Terra have thought anything otherwise?

There is nothing wrong with using the darkness. The darkness is just a power that can be wielded by anybody for good or bad, but it is just due to the corrosive nature of darkness that it controls and corrupts people more easily than say the light.

The light is not without its issues. Eraqus admits that he was blinded by the light and his dogmatic views, turning him to a "dark" path in trying to kill his own apprentices/children. Pure light can still be just as bad as pure darkness.



And again, Eraqus was going to pass Terra regardless of that. He only doubted Terra's ability to control his inner darkness when Xehanort implied it. Terra could have done the whole test using his inner darkness with perfect execution and would have still passed because the benchmark isn't alignment but skill. The variable here was Xehanort's manipulation, not Terra's lack of control.



Okay this is a whammy of a paragraph so let's go bit by bit:

Aqua's ability to resist and fight off the darkness is not a show of her skill as a master, but just a show of her determination to protect her friends/family. Aqua's resolve is what makes her a master, not her ability to stand strong against the darkness.

Ansem's darkness ball of darkness and despair was the catalyst, yes, but all it did was amplify her inner doubts and fears that we saw in 0.2. This inner darkness already lingered inside of her. Remember that the brightest light casts the darkest shadows. Aqua is no better than Terra because her resistance to the darkness up to that point.

Terra was just as thrown off as Aqua by those light orbs, my dude. He got mad at himself for his inner failings that were only brought to light BECAUSE of Xehanort.

Why are you blaming Terra for Xehanort's cruel plan succeeding? Xehanort did everything with the intention of those things happening. He knew he could manipulate Terra. He would have moved onto Ven or Aqua had Terra failed as a vessel as Vanitas implied.

Terra shouldn't be named a master, not because of what you said but because the title itself is absolutely pointless.

Sora doesn't want to be a master.



Terra's actions throughout BBS definitely reinforced that Terra probably wouldn't have been ready for the responsibility of being a master, sure, but his inability to control his darkness is not what kept him from being a master. The only thing that kept him from being a master was Xehanort. End of story.

I'm not arguing that Xehanort didn't cause the events that would lead to Terra's downfall. Yes, Xehanort did everything he could do seduce Terra to the darkness. My argument is that even though Eraqus was going to award Terra the "keyblade master" title, I don't think he would have been deserving of it and the events of BbS prove it. Even if being a "keyblade master" is solely for mastery of skill with a keyblade, I think part of that skill is learning how to be a warrior for the light. There hasn't been a keyblade wielder trained for the darkness or on the side of darkness except for Xehanort (that we've seen). At least in my opinion, a keyblade master or at least someone worthy of that title wouldn't have fallen for Xehanort's trap so easily.

Now whether the title "keyblade master" means anything, in the series it means nothing nowadays. I'm just going off of the apparent importance placed on the title in BbS and the assumed traits that should come with being a master (from the masters we've seen like Eraqus, Yen Sid and Mickey). However, for this discussion I think that the title should be considered meaningful since it is the thing that made Terra fall to the darkness. Terra cares about the title, so we should accept that it has some meaning to him even if in the grand scheme of the KH series it means nothing.